Step into the spiritual heart of relationships with Stephen Edwards, spiritual counselor and author, as he joins Linda Lang for a soul-stirring conversation on how our most challenging connections are meant to break us open and evolve our consciousness.

This inspiring episode unpacks the profound idea that the people and situations causing us the deepest pain are not here to punish us, but to propel us into extraordinary growth and self-realization. Here are three illuminating insights to awaken your spiritual path:

🔹 Relationships as Spiritual Teachers: Stephen Edwards reminds us that every relationship—romantic, familial, or even work-related—serves as a mirror and catalyst for our soul’s evolution. By viewing difficulties as opportunities, we can break free from old patterns and discover the gift hidden within every heartbreak.

🔹 Understanding Soul Contracts: Explore the mystical concept that some souls have agreed to challenge us—to lovingly play the role of a catalyst, guiding us toward deeper wisdom and compassion. These soul contracts create the perfect scenarios for learning essential life lessons, if we are courageous enough to embrace them.

🔹 From Pain to Power: Heartbreak and betrayal often teach us to look within, trust our intuition, and reclaim our personal power. As Stephen Edwards beautifully shares, the journey isn’t about avoiding pain but about discovering our resilience, compassion, and the sacredness of every experience.

Tune in to the 30th episode of Exploring the Mystical Side of Life for an uplifting reminder that the path to spiritual growth is not only paved with love and light but also with the relationships that challenge, test, and ultimately transform us. Your soul’s evolution is calling—will you answer?

Transcript:

 

Stephen Edwards:
You’re going to meet somebody else in a different body, but the same scenario is going to play itself out until you got what you need out of it.

Linda Lang:
What if some of the most difficult people in our lives weren’t there to punish us, but to help us grow? Spiritual counselor Stephen Edwards joins us to share how a deeply painful relationship transformed his understanding of soul contracts, intuition, heartbreak, and personal evolution, and why we often repeat the same relationship patterns. Discover how you can begin recognizing the lesson underneath those patterns. Stay tuned.

Announcer:
Welcome to Exploring the Mystical Side of Life with your host, Linda Lang.

Linda Lang:
Hi, this is Linda Lang from ThoughtChange.com. We are Exploring the Mystical Side of Life once again this week. We have spiritual counselor Stephen Edwards with us. Welcome, Stephen.

Stephen Edwards:
Thank you for having me, Linda. It’s great to be here. I’m looking forward to our conversation.

Linda Lang:
How long have you been on your spiritual path, Stephen?

Stephen Edwards:
Well, I believe we’re on our spiritual path our whole lives, but consciously on the spiritual path.

Linda Lang:
Exactly.

Stephen Edwards:
I say probably, you know, when I joined working for Tony Robbins, I think that took me down a very spiritual path, which people might be surprised to hear me say that about Tony. But he introduced me to people like Neale Donald Walsch, James Redfield, Dan Millman, and others. And so those were the people that really helped me to take flight on this journey, as it were.

Linda Lang:
And now when you are counseling people, are you working specifically with those people just waking up, or is this more an evolution?

Stephen Edwards:
That’s a very good question. Everybody’s at a different stage of the journey. Right? And so what I do is I establish where they are, the language that they’re gonna understand best. Some people are further along, and it’s easier to get them where they wanna be.

Linda Lang:
So, of course, now in this particular time and space, we are going through this massive transformation as a culture, as a species even. Is this about humans waking up?

Stephen Edwards:
You know, when, when we talk about the book, it’s, it’s layered, right? So what I find is, and, and you could probably say this about any book, people find what they need, right? Some people are gonna see the depth of it. Some people are gonna see the surface of it. Some people are gonna see the middle. But what I love about telling this true story is that it’s not saying you need to do this, or you don’t need to do that, or you’re in a toxic relationship, or any of those things. It’s just telling the story. And the story has all these different layers. And sometimes I’m surprised that people say, “Oh, I identified with this.” And I went, “I never even thought of that, right?” So, you know, I’m on my journey.

We’re all on our journey. We’re not, we’re not there yet. We may never get there. But you know, from this experience, I know I’m a lot further along the journey than I was before. It didn’t happen to me; it happened for me. I was a volunteer in this whole thing, right? Nobody forced me into it, and I made some conscious decisions that you might think would be so stupid. But I really thought about things, and I thought about the things that happened, and I would say, you know, “But you got a choice here.” You carry on this journey, or you don’t.

Now, what are the consequences if you do? Pretty severe, right? But what are the consequences if you don’t? I’m gonna lose this woman in my life. And she’s the most amazing woman I’ve ever met, or probably ever will meet. And I like it. So I’m prepared to take the downs with the ups until I couldn’t anymore. And that’s a different story.

Linda Lang:
I love how you are embracing life and the spiritual growth and wisdom that we develop through our everyday human experiences. One of the things you say is that relationships are one of our biggest spiritual challenges. Let’s talk about that.

Stephen Edwards:
Sure. All right. Well, everything is a relationship. Right? You have a relationship with your job, you have a relationship with your dog, you have a relationship with your family. Everything is a relationship. And obviously, Nature intended it that way… for those relationships to be our greatest teachers, our greatest joy, and our greatest sadness. So, like we said earlier, it doesn’t happen to you, it happens for you. That’s easy to say, right? It’s a very easy thing to say. Oh, yeah, I know that.

I know you know that, but do you live it? Do you not necessarily instantly go, “Oh, well, that happened for me?” Yes, someone chopped off my arm. And that, that’s obviously something for me. I mean, you’re going to be upset, you’re going to be disappointed about it. But in the end, if you’re really committed to the belief, you’re going to find a silver lining.

Linda Lang:
And that is a really challenging thing to remember in the midst of the challenge itself.

Stephen Edwards:
And I don’t do that all the time. I forget, right? But the time between me having that moment of getting out of balance and being upset, and the time that I come to that realization— I’m committed to finding a silver lining— it’s gotten shorter and shorter, right? It doesn’t take me as long to recover now as it used to do. I’m just thinking about some of the things that happen in the book. So, for example, now we— I just want to make it clear, we both did crazy things and we both did crazy things to each other. But at one point, you know, I’m a fashion— I love clothes. As soon as I could afford to, I bought my own school clothes. So I had to come up with creative ways to save some pennies to be able to buy my own clothes. And ever since that time, I’ve always been very conscious of what I’m wearing, probably overconscious of it, right? So I’d built a wardrobe of amazing clothes from all over the world.

And at one point, without getting too long into the story, but I had gotten rid of her out of my house, right? It sounds a terrible thing to say, and it is, but she found a way back in and she cut up all my entire wardrobe of clothes. So obviously that was very upsetting to me, right? And I was upset and I was angry. But I woke up the next day a little calmer, and I said, “Okay, if this happened for me, not to me, how?” Right? So, you know, it was another look at attachment.

Linda Lang:
It’s like the Universe testing you.

Stephen Edwards:
Totally. Yeah. And I said, you know what? It’s just clothes. It’s just clothes. I can replace the clothes. I can’t replace her. Right?

Linda Lang:
Now, Stephen, you have made reference to your book, The Venus Flytrap. This is based on your actual life, correct?

Stephen Edwards:
It’s a memoir. Yeah, absolutely.

Linda Lang:
Sounds like a very volatile and passionate relationship you had with this woman.

Stephen Edwards:
Yeah, extremely.

Linda Lang:
So what did you learn? What did you learn in that relationship?

Stephen Edwards:
Well, there were so many things, and probably not what people might think, and what people might think, probably on both sides of it— but one of the most powerful things that I think listeners can relate to is this. I don’t know whether this is most people, I can’t speak for most people, I can only speak for myself. But having listened to people talking to me, people would say, I’ve had the same thing happen to me. I was in what we would call a toxic relationship. And I use this analogy in the book. There’s a man sitting in his garden. It’s a beautiful spring day, sun is shining. He’s looking into one of the bushes, and he sees the cocoon, a butterfly’s cocoon opening up and the butterfly trying to get out of the cocoon.

And it’s trying to squeeze through this little slit, and he can’t get out. So he tries to help it, right, by slitting it wider, so the butterfly can get out more easily. But what happens? The butterfly dies, right? Because now it can’t fly, because it needed that resistance to spread the blood into its wings so it could fly. And so inadvertently, with the best intention, he killed the butterfly. And I think sometimes we try to help people too much when what they’re going through is something they need to go through. And that’s why sometimes it’s almost impossible to stop them, because you go, there’s nothing I can do. They’ve smelled the nectar of the Venus flytrap, and there’s nothing that’s gonna change that now. And sometimes we have to run the course, and if we don’t, then the same thing is going to happen again.

You’re going to meet somebody else in a different body, but the same scenario is going to play itself out until you’ve got what you need out of it, and then it doesn’t happen again. It just goes away on its own.

Linda Lang:
That happens so often, not just in romantic relationships, but in job situations, friends. It’s interesting when you start paying attention to your life and stop playing the victim, right? And step into your place of power. So do you think you had a soul contract with this woman?

Stephen Edwards:
100%. Oh, yes. No question.

Linda Lang:
Let’s talk about soul contracts for a moment, how they’re unfolding in everyone’s life all the time.

Stephen Edwards:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we’re all part of a soul group. I mean, we’re all connected. Everybody’s connected. We’re all connected. Right? But there are certain souls that come into your life repeatedly to help each other. Right? You know, the, one of the best stories I ever read was the story by Neale Donald Walsch, The Little Soul and the Sun, right? There were all these beautiful points of light when we’re in heaven, and we come down here to Earth for a number of reasons, and one of them is to learn and grow as a spiritual being, right? And so we have some of our soulmates, if you want to call it that, or our spiritual circle will come down here and they will smite you.

They’ll do things to you or might think they’re doing it to you, but they are sacrificing their vibration because they love you enough to be that teacher for you. And, she was definitely that for me. I know for sure.

Linda Lang:
So if we consider soul contracts, how does soul contract relate to destiny or the desire of the soul for growth and your free will?

Stephen Edwards:
Yeah, because some people say, “Well, if I have a free will, how can there be a preordained destiny?” Right? Well, both are not exclusive, and both can be true at the same time. So yes, you have free will. And you can reject the lesson. But you’re going to keep rejecting the lesson if you take it at some point, because you can only grow as much as you allow yourself to grow. But it is a choice. So we all get stuck in patterns, right? I know, I know, I certainly have through my lifetime. As I look back now, and I can see, wow, gosh, that happened to me a lot of times before I finally got it, right? And there are probably things that are recurring right now that I haven’t gotten yet, right, that I’ve still got to get. So I do believe we have soul contracts, but I think that obviously some higher power has decided that it’s of value to have soul contracts that can help us again, just to be a help, right? Just to make it a little bit easier. Not too easy.

Not so we can just get out of the cocoon without any resistance, but to help us along the way. For me, that’s the way I look at it.

Linda Lang:
And again, the knowingness that that help isn’t always comfortable.

Stephen Edwards:
Yeah, for sure. You know, Neale Donald— and I keep bringing up Neale Donald Walsch for some reason. I haven’t spoken about him for a while, but he came up, as far as I know, he came up with the quote, “Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.” Because if we stay in our comfort zone, we aren’t learning and growing. And you’re either growing or you’re not, you’re falling back. There’s no in between, right? And the 6 human needs that have been identified, you know, is certainty, variety, connection, significance. But the 2 primary ones are growth and contribution. We’re either growing and contributing or we’re dying.

There’s no in between. Growth is critical. It’s a need and not a want. We need to feel like we’re growing. There’s a lot of people that don’t feel like they’re growing. And that there’s no hope for growth and that they’re not in a position to contribute. But even they are growing and contributing in some way. They’re helping the growth of others and contributing to other people.

Because, you know, I think it was Tony Robbins said, “Your life is either a warning or an example.”

Linda Lang:
That’s brilliant, actually. We don’t all have to sit on the top of the mountain in order to spiritually evolve.

Stephen Edwards:
Well, even there’s that old saying, you know, “No pain, no gain.” And some of the most miraculous things in life are born out of pain. So pain can be a valuable tool. I know, I know, it’s been for me, right? I’ve been through a lot of pain, not just in this relationship, but through my life. I’m not a victim to it. I recognize that it’s helped me understand the human condition at a level that I never could before. It gives me a form of compassion that I could never have without going through those experiences. And that is a gift for me in what I do. Because it gives me such a strong sense of empathy.

Linda Lang:
And definitely pain is a connection. We see that with soldiers. We see that with anyone that goes through any type of trauma with other people. They have an understanding of the circumstances and situation that it’s challenging for an outsider to empathize with. Which takes us back to many other types of relationships which we can feel betrayed, whether that is romantic, in family, friends. Betrayal will create some type of heartbreak. What do you think the spiritual purpose is of that experience?

Stephen Edwards:
Yes, it can cause people to find it difficult to trust. But what we really need to see is we’re not trusting in the process. We are the ones not trusting, right? So if I say you betrayed my trust, what you’ve helped me see is that I put too much trust in the external world and not enough trust in myself and my Creator. So one of the things you were talking about in that ancient podcast I listened to yours that I thought was brand new. was the ability to trust in the process, to go within, to listen to your intuition, right? And we all have that intuition. We all get those feelings. And throughout the book, I talk about, I got this intuitive feeling. I knew this was not the right thing to do.

But in the end, our intuition is a tool, just as our mind is a tool, right? And because you intuitively feel something isn’t right— your intuition has no judgment. It’s just telling you that if you go down this road, it might not be easy, right? And then you decide. Like you just said, you know, we have free will. You don’t have to follow your intuition. It’s just trying to guide you, right? And if you override it, then you’re just telling yourself, I’m not ready to listen solely to my intuition, and I need to go through an experience. And it’s okay. And don’t judge yourself for it, right? Go through the experience because you’re not ready to just know something. You need to experience it first, in this particular example.

Linda Lang:
That mind likes to really get in there.

Stephen Edwards:
Yeah, yeah.

Linda Lang:
And can be addicted to a little bit of drama.

Stephen Edwards:
To extrapolate ourselves is extremely difficult because it is so real. But that’s also the challenge, isn’t it? Right? I never said it was going to be easy. I just said it was going to be worth it, right?

Linda Lang:
You wouldn’t come here if it was easy.

Stephen Edwards:
Of course. What’s the point? What is the point if we were in our natural state? When our natural state is fully enlightened, what would be the point, right? You’ve got no journey, right? You know, if you went back 500 years ago and you told the culture of that time what was going to happen, they would kill you. They would literally kill you because they’re not ready. Not the right time for that, right? We have to be ready on the the conscious evolution, which in actual fact is a revolution, you know, revolving. One revolution returns you back to where you were, right? We’re just on the journey home, and we’re all just on a different step of that journey. And our opportunity is to, is to hold our hand up, hold our hand out and help someone up behind us, and also have our other hand out and have somebody else help us up there too.

Linda Lang:
Exactly. No man is an island. The thing I would like to ask you, Stephen, is going back to the mind and the heart, and how the mind can often get in the way. What tip would you give to anyone who’s having a hard time distinguishing the difference? They might even be listening to their mind and thinking that that’s the truth, and that’s the heart. How can they really get into that heart space and decipher the message is coming through.

Stephen Edwards:
You know, you don’t have to do anything, but the option, the choice is to continue to look for external explanations or feel the explanation in your heart. Because I believe we know, right? We already know. My belief is that our Creator, whatever name you want to give your Creator, is omnipotent, omnipresent, all-loving creative force that flows through everything. Okay, well, if you believe that, then how can you think that they would send you here without everything you need? Everything you need is within you. You know all the stuff— you’d either go within or go without, right?

And so when you commit to that and you start to meditate and start to take a moment before you decide what you’re going to do and feel it, maybe close your eyes, go inward, all these things that sound so Um, what would you say? They sound like, “Oh, this is the cool thing to say, but nobody really does it.” But if you really do it, you will make different choices and you will make different decisions and your life will be different. It’ll go on a different path. If we’re impulsive and we react immediately, then we’re acting out of fear usually, right? And we’re acting out of our mind, and our mind is programmed to believe certain things that society says are the right way to do it.

So you have to make a conscious choice to do things differently and not give up after the second time. You know, that doesn’t work, right? I tried that. Yeah, that doesn’t work, right? You got to get committed to the process. You may never be fully enlightened, but it’s worth— the journey is worth it, right? Along the way, because your life will be easier, like you just said.

Linda Lang:
More interesting too, honestly.

Stephen Edwards:
Pretty sure. For me, you know, it’s been definitely more interesting for me. For many people that are so ingrained with these beliefs that we’re taught from when we’re young, you know, it’s hard to get out of because they’re scared. You know, what if I don’t believe what I was taught as a kid? Then I’m going to go to hell, or these terrible things are going to happen to me, or my friends and family won’t love me anymore, right? One of the primary 6 needs is certainty. I know if I stay where I am, I know what I can expect, right? I know my friends are going to stay around me, and I’m going to be accepted in my social grouping. And to make the change, very often people feel like they’re going to lose everything instead of realizing they’re actually going to gain everything.

Linda Lang:
That certainty is the one that keeps us stuck, right?

Stephen Edwards:
Very much so. Yeah. We all need certainty. We all need to know that when we get out of bed, the floor is going to be there to meet us, right? And we all have to live with uncertainty. Sometimes you don’t realize it, you know, walking out the front door, that moment on, it’s uncertain. You get in your car, you’re not in control of everything anymore. You can control your car, but only your car. You can’t control every car.

And the only thing stopping you from hitting a car coming the other way is a thin line painted in the road. So we have to learn to live with it, and we do. But for some people, letting go of what they know is too much uncertainty, too much variety. Right. So then with connection, some people desire connection so much and they want to feel connected to everybody, they lose significance. People don’t care what they say because they’ll say whatever they need to say in the moment to stay connected. And then people who crave too much significance lose connection.

Linda Lang:
A delicate balance, isn’t it?

Stephen Edwards:
It is. And those are the challenges we’re faced with, you know, and also opportunities, right?

Linda Lang:
And we’re up for it.

Stephen Edwards:
We wouldn’t be here anymore. Which goes back to the saying, “You’re never given more than you can handle,” right?

Linda Lang:
One last thing I’d like to just touch on, Stephen, and that has to do with honesty. We talked briefly before we hit record about that, but it’s very easy to tell yourself a story and identify with that story and not necessarily see the whole picture. Your picture, your internal processes, your patterns, your behaviors. How can we stay more honest with ourselves?

Stephen Edwards:
Yeah. Well, it’s difficult to look at yourself, right? That’s why I think therapy is so important, because you’ve got someone who understands patterns, being a mirror, all those things. So that they can help you see it in yourself. It’s very easy to see in everybody else around us, right? But it’s hard to look at ourselves. And when somebody does give you the insight to see those things, that’s when you got to be honest with yourself, right? And you got to face that truth rather than saying, “I’m too afraid to do that, so I’m going to be dishonest with myself and pretend that it doesn’t apply to me.” So honesty with yourself comes first because it’s very difficult to be honest with everybody else until you’re honest with yourself, right?

Until you can look at those things, be prepared to look at yourself and not be afraid. You know, so one of the things, one of the gifts for me for writing the book was I put it all out there. I mean, everything, you know, childhood trauma, being in a sane asylum, all the things that I was ashamed of into a book and bearing my soul to the world. I mean, what could you say about me that I haven’t already said, right? So I go, it’s okay, you know, I’m free from that. And by being free from that, and forgiving myself, you know, so often people, when we talk about forgiveness, people say, well, I gotta forgive Fred. I know I gotta give you— you don’t have to forgive Fred, you have to forgive yourself, right? And when you can forgive yourself, the rest of it all goes away.

Linda Lang:
Tell us a little bit about your own spiritual awakening.

Stephen Edwards:
Well, yeah, I don’t know this for sure, but I strongly suspect that, you know, as I mentioned, I was in an asylum when I was 16 years of age, right? And that came about because, as they established, I was what they would call a manic depressive, right? And that I’d been through an experience of mania, right? So I got this extraordinary high. And I think this is even known scientifically, that when you go into that state of euphoria, people that do that can do extraordinary things. They have the ability to do things that in a normal state, normal people can’t do, whatever normal is. So the whole process of going in that asylum was to bring me down, right? To bring me down from that euphoric state to what they would say is normal. And part of me was thinking, wait a minute, that seemed more like normal where I was to where I am now. And I, I experienced things like, it’s hard to explain. You can probably explain it better than me because I have a sense you’ve had similar experiences. It’s not that there was a voice in my head, but there was a knowing of things.

So let me give you an example. We talked earlier and you didn’t say this, but you said, I think maybe it was inferred, what was my religious background, right? Because— I have a PhD in spiritual counseling, and I was never religious. However, at one point, I had this knowing, which may challenge some people, which is why I don’t talk about it very often. But, you know, we talk about the Son of God, right? And I, in my mind, I went, yeah, it’s the sun of God. It is the light and the way. It’s the sun. You know, how can’t everybody just see that? It gives life to everything.

Without the sun, there is no life. Nothing will grow. We have no experience, right? So it was things like that I just became aware of, you know, and I just knew in that space, and that I would be able to just sit and write automatically. And the stuff that would come out, I wasn’t even aware of it. I was sitting there sometimes in tears, just feeling this feeling of— you want to call it bliss, joy? Nirvana, I don’t know. And then I would look down at what I wrote and I would read it and it’d be like, that is amazing. And I knew I hadn’t written it because I didn’t know any of that stuff, right? It would talk about the future, about what was going to be happening with the world, how it was going to change. So that was given to me as a gift.

And people say, “Well, how do you do that?” I go, “I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know how to—” I can’t repeat it at will. Maybe one day I’ll figure that out. I don’t know. But those things definitely had a profound effect on me and changed me, you know, helped me look at the world in a different way, helped me look at people in a different way, our experience in a different way. And then I actually wrote a book around it. This was a pretty profound experience that people even to this day can’t believe this happened, right? So you remember, and I’ve talked about it more to you than anybody I’ve mentioned in my life, but Neale Donald Walsch, right? Right? He wrote the book Conversations with God.

So, and I met him and I met his daughter. And anyway— so anyway, the bottom line is I was having this experience of automatic writing. And I just didn’t believe it. And I was scared to do it. And I had to gain courage from somewhere, right? And this is also pretty amazing because you have a voice very similar to her. And I was going to tell you that after we finished, but her name is Delilah. She used to have this radio show, and she used to play very loving music, right? It was all about relationships. She was all about relationships.

She would talk to people going through difficulties in between playing the songs. So I would have her radio station on in the background while I was writing, and guess what started to happen? The words from the songs would fit perfectly with what I was writing. And I was like, I can’t believe this absolutely fits perfectly. And it was an affirmation from the Creative Force that this is really happening. This is real. But even then, every time I went back to writing again, I would doubt it again, right? I would doubt it again. And so over and over again, I would go through this experience until it became a book. And the book I decided to call Communion— communion-cating, communicating, communion, Communicating with God.

Linda Lang:
I’m curious, Stephen, how you decided or accepted perhaps that you weren’t insane or mentally unstable, because that’s probably how the system was seeing you. How did you understand that was actually an awakening?

Stephen Edwards:
Well, because I knew. I just knew. I knew that what I was writing was the truth. Love is the truth, Right? If you’re ever unsure, you just gotta ask yourself, is that based in fear or is that based in love? And if it’s based in love, it’s true. And if it isn’t, it’s not true. Right? And so I knew what I was emoting. I knew what I was feeling, and I knew what I was writing was the truth.

Linda Lang:
Which brings us back to Neale Donald Walsch. And he’s the one I believe the first time I read that there are only 2 things, love And fear.

Stephen Edwards:
He’s right, because he talked with God, right? He did talk with God. I mean, how could you read that book and go— you can’t say he didn’t, you go, “Oh, come on, he did,” right? That’s for real, right?

Linda Lang:
Such a beautiful book. Oh my gosh.

Stephen Edwards:
Amazing man. And he too, you know, when he wrote the book, he said, “Listen, I’m not saying I’m perfect,” right? And there’s plenty of people who will tell you I’m not, including me, which really then makes people realize it can happen to any of us. It’s there for us all. If we will, as you just indicated, and I need to, to get back to that space, creating that space for it to happen.

Linda Lang:
Exactly. Yeah. We do have pretty high standards, I think, of what we consider to be spiritually enlightened. So, yeah.

Stephen Edwards:
Well, I heard a great story about spiritual enlightenment. I’ll just share this real quick. So there’s this young Chinese kid. He’s like 17, and he’s working in a Chinese laundry. and he’s carrying a basket of laundry, and suddenly he has satori, which is instant awakening, right? So he has this instant awakening, and then he looks down, picks up the basket, and carries on with his life, right? So, you know, I’ve had these— whether you call it enlightenment, I don’t know— these profound experiences, but then you just got to put it down and carry on with your life, and it will influence certain things for sure, But I don’t think we’re meant to be permanently in any state.

You know, life is moving, the river’s moving, right? Life is moving. And we’re going to go from different states of being. Sometimes we’re going to be happy, sometimes we’re going to be upset, sometimes we’re going to be sad. But that’s okay, because those are the spectrum of emotions that we want to experience in the human form. So it’s all, all a gift. It just might not feel like it in the first place, right?

Linda Lang:
So true. So true. Thank you.

Stephen Edwards:
You’re very welcome.

Linda Lang:
Stephen, where can we send people who would like to know more?

Stephen Edwards:
The website is VFT, which stands for Venus Flytrap, 23, vft23.com. There’s a special link for your viewers, your audience to go and get a complimentary consultation or do some consulting. I’m more than happy to do that at a special rate for them.

Linda Lang:
Thank you. And thank you for listening to this week’s edition of Exploring the Mystical Side of Life. If you enjoy our conversations, remember to subscribe, share with a friend, and maybe consider joining the membership. Come visit me at ThoughtChange.com, pick up your copy of Learning to Listen, and we will see you again next time. Bye for now.