Step into the sanctuary of the heart as Susanna and Puran Bair, founders of the I Am Heart Spiritual School, join Linda to illuminate the mystical and healing power within each heartbeat.

In this episode, we journey deep into the multidimensional heart—physical, energetic, and the seat of the soul—to rediscover its innate wisdom and capacity for transformation. Susanna gently guide us through Heart Rhythm Meditation, a powerful practice blending breath, attention, and intention to awaken the healing intelligence of the heart.

Here are three key takeaways from this heart-opening conversation:

🔹 The Heart Remembers & Heals: Learn how the heart lovingly holds and integrates all your life experiences, carrying both joy and wounds, and discover that simply giving your heart attention and breath initiates a gentle journey toward deep emotional healing and harmony.

🔹 Breath as Spiritual Fuel: Experience how conscious, rhythmic breathing connects you to the pulse of your own heart, infusing it with energy, strength, and light. The heart’s field becomes perceptible, linking you with others in a powerful web of unity and compassion.

🔹 Self-Love and Resilience: Embrace the ultimate act of self-love—meeting your heart with presence, forgiveness, and gratitude. Through practice, even vulnerability becomes a source of profound courage and guidance, revealing your purpose and resilience in the world.

Embark on this meditative exploration and let the wisdom of your heart uplift, heal, and guide you. Don’t miss the heartfelt meditation led by Susanna Bair that will shift your energy and open the doors to harmony and joy within.

Transcript:

Susanna Bair:
And when you experience that, your heart opens up to a whole other dimension. In the old traditions, they knew that the soul is actually centered in the heart. Of course, the energy field of the soul is vast, right? And to think that the soul is in the heart, you get like a whole different feeling about breath and heart.

Linda Lang:
Hi, this is Linda Lang from ThoughtChange.com. We are Exploring the Mystical Side of Life once again. If you enjoy our conversations, remember to subscribe, share with a friend. We have a real treat for you today as we explore the depth of the heart. I have Susanna and Puran Bair with me. They are the founders of the I Am Heart Spiritual School. Welcome.

Puran Bair:
Thank you.

Susanna Bair:
Thank you for having us. It’s such a treat to share with you the heart. Very meaningful to us and we are impressed how much you know about the heart.

Linda Lang:
I ran across your book across at least 10 years ago, if not 15. And it’s such a beautiful book. So it’s a real pleasure to have you. Can you explain your definition of the heart?

Puran Bair:
We talk about three levels of the heart. So the physical heart is real and it’s gotta be in there. The organ has wonderful job to do for all of us. And it, it beats, it’s the only organ that really has a pulse to it, something you can feel. You know that it moves by itself. And that pulse is so important, it sets the rhythm of the whole body. It’s like the inner clock that regulates metabolism and the way we think.

Even then, there’s a second level of the heart, the energetic level. Because as it beats electrically, the electrical impulses that cause the heart to contract also cause a magnetic field. Every beat of the heart creates a pulse of energy that goes out into the space without limit, and those pulses form a field of energy. And that field is something that overlaps in each other’s hearts, if you consider the heart to be the field. And the third level of the heart is that it’s the seed of the soul. It’s been thought like this, it’s been recognized in this way since Egypt, long, long ago.

All the religions talk about this relationship between heart and soul. That the soul being unmanifest and not physical obviously is conceptual, can’t be experienced directly. Although people have tried by becoming out of body, we want to be in body. We have a very embodied method. We value the body, but we still want to experience the soul. So fortunately the soul is reflected into the heart. So if you want to find your soul, or experience the soul of someone else, you can go through the heart to do that. And that’s a fantastic revelation.

That’s so exciting because it means we can experience spirituality in our bodies and in life. We don’t have to be monks and retire to the monastery. We can be doing our spiritual work in our bodies, in our lives, through the heart.

Linda Lang:
And that heart is so key to any type of healing or spiritual expression. Like you say, it affects the field around us. Science actually even knows there’s a magnetic field around the heart. So it’s part and parcel of, I’ll call it the manifested expression, let’s say, of our being here. I’m curious, though, as you were talking about the physical heart, what correlations that you might understand for people who have arrhythmia or actual heart defects? Is there anything that can be done to improve their physical heart with your techniques?

Puran Bair:
Yeah, it’s real important to work on the physical heart, and we do have a lot of people at our school that came with some sort of arrhythmia. As they say in yoga, anything that you do consciously is improved. The systems in the body run automatically, unconsciously. But when you can try to make them conscious, you improve their function, whether it’s digestion or anything else. So with the heart, by putting your attention on the heart, first of all, as soon as you think of your heart, you increase the blood flow to the heart. You actually change the circulation system, and that makes the heart stronger. And then the way we breathe, we add energy to the heart through breath.

Breath is really a way to move energy inside the body, and you can direct your breath and direct the flow of energy. So in Heart Rhythm Meditation, we say that we’re breathing through the heart. It’s an image, it’s a visualization, but it actually has an effect. There’s actually an energy flow that is increased through the heart. We can measure it in the field, and we can measure it even with light, there’s more light comes out of the heart. It’s all because of the breath brings energy. And when you think of your heart and breathe, the breath goes through the heart.

Linda Lang:
So when you say breathe through the heart, are you talking the physical heart or are you talking the heart chakra?

Puran Bair:
It’s the heart chakra. Although, you know, the heart chakra is right on top of the physical heart, so it all feels the same. The the heart chakra is composed of the cardiac plexus. And that’s right on top of the heart is a place where the nerves meet. And then another thing that we consider to be part of this heart structure is the thymus gland, which builds the immune system. So we get good immune response by thinking of our heart. When you think of that place in your chest, you get the heart organ, the cardiac plexus, and the thymus gland altogether. And you can feel a pressure there, like a presence in your chest that seems to radiate, especially as you breathe out, you have a sense of radiating this energy of the heart outward, which is very pleasant and actually helpful to people.

Linda Lang:
Can you tell us a little bit about the Heart Rhythm Meditation that you teach?

Susanna Bair:
Of course. We love to tell you more about the meditation, the Heart Rhythm Meditation. I speak a little bit about it, and then I actually would like to do a little meditation with you to give you a taste. What’s so beautiful about the heart? The heart, the physical heart, is being created in the first three weeks of the gestation embryo. And so that heartbeat is actually the first sound that we hear as human beings. We hear the sound of our mother. And a heartbeat can be detected through instruments very, very early on in the gestation process. And so we really work with that heartbeat because it’s inherent to our system of being alive on planet Earth.

According to us, we have been alive long before we are in this physical body, and we’re going to be alive long, long after this physical body. But to have that heartbeat and to be in touch with the heart is such a human privilege in this physical incarnation on this planet Earth. So Heart Rhythm Meditation really focuses on the connection between breath and heart. First, we love to teach our people breathing. The breath, really, that is what brings the energy to the heart. And this is what we all have a lack of, is a lack of energy. And when the heart has energy, we hear our heartbeat very easily. So all that is connected, because sometimes in the very beginning, when we say, “Listen to your heartbeat,” people have a hard time feeling their heartbeat because for decades they have not paid attention to their heart. And we do know that children actually keep their connection, their deep connection to the heart, till the age of about 6, or 5-6. You know, when we started learning ourselves and putting the meditation together, I worked in all different places… in nursing school, went to elementary school, went to high school, to colleges, to nursing homes, to hospitals.

I wanted to know, everywhere, how do people react to this Heart Rhythm Meditation? Do they find their heart? Is it comfortable to be with their heart? And for a lot of people, it’s a skill to find their heartbeat. Again, not for children. And the question is, why do we hide our heart? And it has a lot to do with the culture that we live in, and it has to do too, with the vulnerability of our heart. Our heart is, on the one hand, very powerful and strong and courageous, and on the other hand, very vulnerable and gentle. Like a feather, practically. Heart Rhythm Meditation, at its very simplest way, it’s breath and heart. What happens when we give our heart this energy of the breath? Because breath on the physical level is air. We can control the flow of air we breathe all the time, but when we focus on the breath, then we can make our breath slow, full and deep.

And this breath slow, full and deep has an effect on the heart very differently. And when we breathe slow, full and deep, eventually we experience that our breath is energy. And when we experience this, our heart has a different reaction to it. And maybe the heart even feels it before you become conscious about it. And then when you keep breathing, breathing for decades or for some time, it depends on you… you actually experience that your breath is actually spirit or light. And when you experience that, your heart opens up to a whole other dimension. In the old traditions, they knew that the soul is actually centered in the heart.

Of course, the energy field of the soul is vast, right? And to think that the soul is in the heart, you get like a whole different feeling about breath and heart. And that all happens through this consciousness, and awareness of the breath, and the connection to the heart. So if you want me to guide you through a little meditation.

Linda Lang:
I would love you to, however, I have a few questions. First, one of the things that really strikes me as I listen to both of you speaking is how full the energy of the heart is. And by that I mean how interconnected it is to the body, to the emotions, to the mind, to the spirit. It’s like we have access to our whole being through the heart.

Susanna Bair:
That’s right.

Linda Lang:
So actually, what comes to my mind is that it probably doesn’t matter if you start to access the heart because of your physical health or because you’re a spiritual seeker or because you have some emotional pains that you’re trying to work out. Doesn’t matter, all those levels will be affected.

Puran Bair:
That’s right. We get the whole three level experience every time. So the heart and emotion is quite interesting because the emotion that we have is actually encoded in the heartbeat. There’s a slight variation from beat to beat. They don’t come every second. The little wiggle in there, and that wiggle represents the emotion. There’s a different kind of wiggle in the heartbeat for each emotion.

And so if you look at the pattern of heartbeats, not the average heart rates, but the pattern, you can see clearly what is the emotion of the person. And this means that we are broadcasting emotions to each other because the field extends far beyond the body. And other people pick up that field unconsciously in their heart, but they respond to it. So as you approach a person, you’re already telling them who you are and how you feel, and they’re picking it up at various levels of attention, awareness, and they’re beginning to respond to you, and then you responding to them. And so there’s this wonderful interaction at the energy level which really corresponds to emotion. So it’s really important when a person is learning meditation to use emotion and not try to just be a mental exercise. But the power is in emotion, and emotion drives thought. So you think the way you feel.

My experience is that when you start breathing and you use this breath, slow, full and deep, and really make your breath really complete, the heart is so deeply touched after some time that it really touches the emotions within yourself. If you like it or not. I think the power of the breath and the power of the heart, and, you know, sometimes there’s a surprise, and the heart often works with surprise. You think, “Okay, I really know this Heart Rhythm practice now.” And then you do your daily practice, morning or evening or whenever, and you sit down and practice, and all of a sudden your heart starts opening to this deep place, and your tears appear, and you get in touch with some experiences that you thought you had worked through, or that you thought they are so buried that they would not exist. But the heart has this inherent love, I want to say, built in for each one of us, that it remembers everything, and it wants to actually bring everything within your heart into harmony. That it is not neutral or that it is let go.

But the heart has this inherent knowledge to heal its own wounds, if you give it attention and energy, and the attention comes through your mind. So it is not that you can do Heart Rhythm Meditation and not use your mind. Your mind is completely occupied in the practice. And that’s the beauty of it. This is how the mind in Heart Rhythm Meditation finds peacefulness, because it’s occupied with going deep into the heart, going to its resources. The heart, at its very, very own depth, is familiar with all emotions and not afraid of them. It knows how to integrate them.

If you give it enough energy and enough attention, enough time and space, that sort’s of one of the secrets of the heart. The heart wants to heal itself. And when you experience that move into bliss and joy and want to be friends with everybody, and you want to be remembered, all I ask of you is to remember me as loving you. That is how we all want to be remembered. With all the crimes that we do to each other, you know, the crimes of the heart, well, they all move and are forgiven if we let the heart do its work. That’s the secret of the heart.

Linda Lang:
Susanna, I would love if you would guide us.

Susanna Bair:
Okay. Right. So for Heart Rhythm Meditation, you can find a comfortable position and a seat wherever it feels right for you. The space is important and helpful. And you take an intention for this meditation. What would you like to get out of the meditation? Maybe just to feel your heartbeat or just to feel peacefulness. Maybe whatever your heart tells you, that kind of intention you take. And then in Heart Rhythm Meditation, we like to take a posture which helps us to be embodied.

We have the feet on the ground, and we usually like to sit in chairs or at a great couch or whatever the seat is, but have an upright spine because the spine holds the nervous system and also holds electricity. And the spine helps us to sit up straight and help us to have our heart exposed. So that helps, the posture helps us to support the heart. And then the next step would be, if you feel comfortable, you can have actually your eyes open and start looking around in the room or space that you are in. And that is very helpful to create comfort for you, to look around in the space. And you can even look at some objects that make you feel really that you are in the right space and feel comfortable. And that allows you then to close your eyes with ease. And then you can even hear the sound in the room and feel, are there any sounds there? Or maybe you hear even the sounds outside of the room, which could be birds singing.

And that brings you finally to the breath that is there at all times, our everyday breath. But now it is conscious inhalation and exhalation. And your whole focus is now on the breath. And by focusing on these little breaths of inhalation and exhalation, your breath has the tendency to deepen itself. It could be that your exhalation becomes more deep or your inhalation. Each one of us has the tendency to have either a longer inhalation or a longer exhalation. That’s how it comes through our habits in our life. So you let your breath go more deep, and your whole consciousness and awareness is with your breath.

And you start feeling how wonderful it feels to breathe more deeply. And so we feel and we want to invite more breath, more energy into our body. And we do this by starting to exhale more deeply, and then when the inhalation comes, we want to inhale more deeply. And then you can go as far as that when the next exhalation comes, you start squeezing your abdominal muscles, the muscles below your belly button. You really squeeze those tightly and move them back to the back of your spine. That allows your diaphragm muscle to really empty your lungs. And when the inhalation wants to come, you do the opposite movement.

And you make your abdominal muscles, your belly, your womb, you make that very, very wide, really feel the vastness. And this is like a really good feeling. You feel your buttocks, and you might feel your sexual organs, and you really widen your abdomen. And that, when you inhale, helps you to widen your rib cage. And it’s really a widening experience rather than raising your shoulders. And this makes our breath very slow, full and deep. If you go through these steps very slowly, every time you exhale, you really tighten your contracting the abdominal muscles. And every time you inhale, you widen your abdominal muscles.

So allow to give yourself time to find these movements while you breathe and see how your mind is really involved to get this done. And maybe at this point, some of us already feel our heart, feel the heartbeat, and some of us don’t feel it at all. And therefore, we take one hand, we take the right hand, put it on our heart center where the sternum is, and you really touch your body, and it feels like you connecting the cords that your heart feels protected. And maybe that makes you feel your heartbeat or your pulse. And if you take your left hand and put it on the wrist of your right hand, maybe you can feel in your wrist your pulse. See, the difference between the heartbeat and the pulse is that the pulse has always one beat and can be felt anywhere in the body. But the heartbeat has a love-dub, it’s a double beat, love-dub. And maybe you can feel all pulse and heartbeat.

And now see, what does my breath do? Is it still slow, full and deep? So it’s the synchronization of breath and heartbeat which creates the field, which really creates this magical experience. When we feel that field of the heart, it feels actually that we are sitting in the field of our heart. It’s a real magical experience to sit in the energy of one’s own heart. And if you have a partner next to you like I do, and you feel, “I am in my partner’s heart and he’s in my heart,” I’m speaking here of the feel. And when I really can focus, I can feel that Linda is part of my heart. Now, because the heart field goes into infinity, does not end, it’s so vast that we can feel each other’s heart from far, far away. And we say, you are in my heart.

And this is the wonderful practice in the heart of Heart Rhythm Meditation. And what also happens, if we really focus and concentrate and feel we are in each other’s heart field, our physical heart likes that experience so much that our rhythm of our heart aligns with the rhythm of the heart of our partners. Our hearts align with each other, and that is the beauty, the strength and the power of the heart. If we, in this state, have a wish… so we can try it out between us, what kind of wish comes to your mind from your heart? What do we wish for? All right. By breathing through our heart. Long, deep inhalations and exhalations through the heart. And I’m pretty sure each one of us know our wish. So let’s test that now.

So you let go of breathing and concentrating this way can move your body and open up your eyes and look around in that room that we first looked around in. Okay, so what did you wish for, Linda?

Linda Lang:
I wish to always be aware of the wisdom of my heart.

Susanna Bair:
Oh, how beautiful. What did you wish, Puran?

Puran Bair:
I wish to feel this light that comes out of my chest and send it to people to illuminate their hearts.

Susanna Bair:
Well, I wished for that all the people that I hold in my heart would become present of that energy and feel the harmony with each other. So I felt a lot of harmony between the three of us. I felt that harmony very, very strongly. It made me very harmonious and happy. I feel really a very simple feeling of joy and happiness in my heart at this point. Lightness.

Linda Lang:
Beautiful shift in the inner state. I’d encourage the listeners to write their wish below, because once you express it, that energy goes out through the power of your voice or however you’re communicating it to the world. Looking around the room afterwards, there’s an ever so subtle shift in the energy. It’s like it’s being uplifted, and there’s more light and more awareness of the energy around me in my room.

Susanna Bair:
That’s very beautiful that you say this, Linda. Important and magnificent thing to do, this looking around in the room. Because sometimes you feel what you said, you know, that you look around, “Oh, yeah; it’s lifted everything.” And I felt lifted in this meditation. But sometimes when you do Heart Rhythm Meditation, you’re touching on a deep place. Maybe a feeling of abandonment that you maybe had yesterday, in some kind of conversation at a dinner or something. And that abandonment where you felt left out moved you into another situation where, much earlier in your life, you experienced this and where this whole patterns opened up and you’re like, “Oh my goodness, that’s what my heart does.”

And you want to be held by something. And when you open up, then your eyes you see, “Oh, here’s my room. Here are the objects that I chose to be in this room, my beloved things.” Do you see? And that holds you in that moment when you come from an experience where your heart was leading you to a place where you are like, “That’s more than I wanted to know in the moment.” But the heart has that ability. And if one meditates again instead of saying, “I’m not going to do this anymore,” but say, “That was interesting that my heart remembers all that,” and you do it again, your heart will feel differently about it. It, will go deeper and it will heal those kinds of wounds. Digestive system. Digestion, we call it. The heart digests its wounds.

So that is the beauty and the power of the heart on an emotional level. And that’s very, very important to know about the heart. So that’s why looking around in the room we found, and also the sounds that are familiar, they can really, really hold you, you know. And some people like to light a candle that has some scent. Yeah. So those things can really be helpful to bring you back to a pleasant place. When your heart tries to heal, you know, the things that are in your heart right now, so that is what the heart likes to do.

Linda Lang:
I feel like this is the ultimate self-love exercise.

Susanna Bair:
Oh, Linda, you’re so beautiful. It is. Really, it is. It is self-love. Because when one actually starts realizing over time that all that we experience, especially childhood experiences, that we were loved as much as they could. And so when you start forgiving and feel the love of your heart, then the love becomes bigger and bigger and grows in your heart.

Puran Bair:
Thank you for this opportunity, Linda.

Linda Lang:
Been more than my pleasure. I’m just wondering what you would suggest to any listeners that joined us on the meditation and maybe there was a little bit of anxiety coming up, or a little bit of sadness, or some of those darker emotions. Is there any wisdom you could share about working through those emotions?

Puran Bair:
Well, first of all, it takes practice. So we really recommend that people who are listening join us in daily meditation. We have free meditations online. These are led by living people, you know, in real time. Our website, iamheart.org/gift, we give you a gift of access to these things. The app is free, Breath and Heart, Apple or the iPhone or the Android. And it has hundreds of these meditations in it, all about the heart. So just keep going back.

You go and keep going back to the heart and it gets better. Things that were overwhelming there for a moment, it won’t happen like that again because, by touching into that experience, you’ve experienced it and that’s what it wanted. It wanted you to re-experience that. And every one of these emotions that comes up, it has in it a message and a reason, you know, a purpose. It has something to tell us. So by touching into the emotion, we get that message. And then it doesn’t have to say it again, it doesn’t have to happen again. So the whole process is very dynamic. It changes. It won’t be the same the next time.

Susanna Bair:
Usually one needs to know when one starts this practice, the emotions don’t come right away. What needs to be learned in the beginning is the breath. How to make your breath slow, rhythmic and deep. And then when you touch your heart, the heart feels that right away, that you’re breathing differently. But you might not feel the heart and you might not feel the effects. It comes over time. So that’s the interesting thing.

So the emotion, they come in when the heart actually feels comfortable in showing you the emotions. And so we shouldn’t be afraid of. Because the heart tells you, “Look, I’m ready for this. Are you ready for this?” And often it comes that we are not ready for it. And I think this is your question. And as Puran said, we have these tools, you know, these classes where there’s every day a teacher talk with you, they give you answers to any of your questions. We have also mentors in the school that you could call on and they spend a whole hour with you about the technique or the emotions and questions. And so it is having the courage to be familiar with what’s in my heart. You know, the heart is really invincible.

The vulnerability of the heart, when we learn how to become vulnerable, the heart really becomes strong, it becomes powerful. And the heart shows you then what it loves to do. It gives you, what could my purpose be? What do I really want to do with this life? And the heart gets then guidance and receives messages. So it gets very, very interesting this work with the heart. The heart starts speaking to you and guiding you. And that is when we practice gratefulness for all that we experience to all these different challenges. Because this is, in today’s world, what goes on politically and economically, to stay firm and say I’m grateful for this life. And I’m grateful for this world. And it might sound a little bit far out, but if you have that strength, your heart will hold you through it. It will hold you through all this nonsense that goes on.

Linda Lang:
The resilience of the heart.

Susanna Bair:
The resilience of the heart.

Linda Lang:
Perfect.

Puran Bair:
Perfect.

Susanna Bair:
The resilience of the heart. It is there. It’s very, very powerful. Yeah, beautiful.

Linda Lang:
It reminds me actually a little bit as you were talking of the subconscious, how we keep taking information in until about 6 years old and that’s the same age that we have a deeper connection with the spirit of our heart during that time.

Susanna Bair:
Yeah, that’s right.

Puran Bair:
Part of the heart is unconscious and part of it is conscious. And, and the interesting thing about this conscious breathing is that when you breathe consciously, a different part of your body is breathing. From the brain stem, which is doing the unconscious breathing, to the cortex when you breathe consciously, and different muscles are involved in different nerves. So there’s two parallel systems for breathing. And when you change into the conscious system, you free up the unconscious. Let’s say that part of your brain that was doing the unconscious breathing is freed up and it becomes a gateway. So all of a sudden you start getting these messages from your unconscious that were blocked before because the brainstem was busy doing breathing. Now it’s free to shuttle messages back and forth. You can also make it bi-directional. You can send messages into the unconscious.

Linda Lang:
Well, that sounds like great fun to play with.

Susanna Bair:
Oh, yeah.

Linda Lang:
Very different kind of meditation, but even the short example really shows the power and potential of it.

Susanna Bair:
Well, this, this meditation that we just did is sort of the base of all other meditation. One can go into the four dimensions of the heart. We have chakras 1.0, and then we have chakras 2.0. We have all kinds of different practices. We have archetypes that are based on these practices with the Elements. Then we have the steps of realization. In order to have a spiritual school, you have to gauge sort of where the development of the student is. And so people are in our school for 20 years. They become teachers, they become mentors, they become retreat guides. And that way, we serve the community. It’s a community. But each one of the people who works with the heart or with any kind of meditation has a great effect on the world.

Linda Lang:
Absolutely. Now would you share your books with us?

Puran Bair:
Yeah. So Living from the Heart was our first book, and that was the basis of Heart Rhythm Meditation. Then our second book was called Energize Your Heart, and that’s where we explored the dimensions of the field. When you explore the heart’s field, you find that it has a characteristic shape. It doesn’t go uniformly in all directions. It is three dimensional, but not uniformly. And that shape of the field is indicative of one’s personality and one’s whole approach to life. And it can change. You can change it. So you can change yourself in a fundamental way by changing the energy. Not trying to change your mind, that’s difficult. But change the energy is something you can do because you can change it with your breath. And we have a third book called Follow Your Heart, which is about the labyrinth. We use the labyrinth as a map for the stages of progress. We identify nine points in the labyrinth.

Linda Lang:
Beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Susanna Bair:
Thank you. Thank you, Linda. Thank you so much for having us, and going so deep with us, and allowing to feel what the energy of the heart has to offer by working with you. We felt it very strongly. It’s not always the case in interviews to have that experience. Thank you, Linda.

Puran Bair:
You’re an extraordinary interviewer. Thank you so much.

Linda Lang:
Thank you. Let’s share your website one more time.

Puran Bair:
Yeah. This is also a special link here. Iamheart.org/gift. Go there and you’ll get connected up.

Susanna Bair:
Perfect.

Linda Lang:
And thank you for listening to this week’s edition of Exploring the Mystical Side of Life. You will find all of our conversations on YouTube and your favorite podcast platform. Come visit me atThoughtChange.com. Pick up your copy of Learning to Listen and we will see you again next time. Bye for now.